Forum - View topicWhat are you watching right now? Why? (please read 1st post)
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ailblentyn
 Posts: 1688 Location: body in Ohio, heart in Sydney |
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oops.
Last edited by ailblentyn on Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ailblentyn
Posts: 1688 Location: body in Ohio, heart in Sydney |
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I watched the first couple of episodes of Hyakko for a little change of pace.
I think thew word I'm looking for is... light. Very light. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6525 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Hyouge Mono episoses 15-25
Reason for watching: It's directed by Koichi Mashimo, it's targeted at an adult audience and the first 14 episodes were brilliant. Synopsis: Following the death of Oda Nobunaga and the defeat of General Akechi Mitsuhide, General Hashiba Toyotomi travels to the imperial capital at the peak of his power and granted the title of Chief Advisor to the Emperor. Areas of Japan still remain to be subdued so Hashiba sends Governor Furuta to his most dangerous rival, General Tokugawa Ieyasu, to make a truce. At his home in Osaka Hashiba finds himself increasingly dependent on the tea master Senno Soeki and, misunderstanding Senno's principles of imperfection as the goal of an aesthete, announces the Kitano Tea Ceromony where nobles and tea masters will compete for the honour of conducting the best tea ceremony. Seeing the competition as an opportunity to gain immortal fame Furuta takes Senno's notions to absurd lengths. 
Left to right: Furuta Sasuke aka Oribe: Bound uneasily to Hashiba, he is a skilled negotiator even though he can't see the big picture. Osen: Furuta's loyal wife; in his dealings with his family and subjects we see Furuta's human side. Those eyes are creepy. Hashiba Toyotomi: His insecurity lies at the heart of his self-aggrandisement. Senno Soueki aka Ryuki: On a personal mission to convert Japan to his aesthetic ideals. Hechikan: The rustic tea master who takes the mickey out of everyone. Tokugawa Ieyasu: Sidelined by Hashiba he bides his time and begins to build a rapport with Furuta. Happily a new group has taken over fansubbing the otherwise unavailable Hyouge Mono. My fears of never finishing this fascinating and singular series have been allayed now that all but the last episode are available with subs, with the last one due any day. I may add that the new fansubbers seem to have a better idea of what's going on than their predecessors. Anyway, these episodes - a sort of interbellum - tell a more or less complete story arc on their own, climaxing in the Kitano Tea Ceremony where Furuta makes a complete ass of himself. The title of the series could be interpreted as "buffoon" and one would be tempted to apply the moniker to Furuta who by now is commonly referred to by his new title, Oribe, bestowed upon him by Hashiba, though chosen by Furuta. His new name demonstrates his inability to see to the truth behind appearances. A Japanisation of the English name "Olive", Furuta thinks it sounds impressive without being overly pompous. It also suits his penchant for dressing in green (I'm sure there's a joke there, as well). Only we know, however, that it is a woman's name. Yet, the title of buffoon could just as well be applied to every male character in the story. General Hashiba, ever seeking to boost his self-importance gets more and more ridiculous as time goes on, becoming a vain (and even more tasteless) parody of the man he overthrew, Nobunaga. Sometimes I think his buffoonery is a weapon to subjugate and humiliate his rivals but his continuing aesthetic cluelessness always manages to convince me otherwise. A new character, the hermetic Hechikan, elevates buffoonery to an art form. So much so that his actions amount to insolence. He has a pit of dirty water outside his tea rooms that all his self-important guests ritually fall into. At the Kitano Tea Ceremony he serves watery barley tea to Hashiba accompanied by lewd references to his wife. As is his wont when confused, Hashiba declares Hechikan as the winner only to change his mind when Furuta makes a pathetic intervention. Two characters may seem to stand above the absurdity - the simple (but not simple-minded) and prudent Tokugawa and the austere tea master Senno. Not so. Tokugawa is reduced to moony-eyed stupidity when he meets Hashiba's homely but neglected wife (something that the crafty Furuta is quick to take advantage of) while Hechikan so mercilessly pricks Senno's pomposity that the latter discards his black robes and begins to do things for "fun". Hyouge Mono is telling us that Japan of the warring states period was run by a pack of fools. They knew how to gain and use power, they knew how to wage war, but they didn't have a clue about doing anything worthwhile, demonstrated by their vain (in both senses of the word) pursuit of aesthetic self-affirmation. Fururata is a study in paradox, at once both crafty and foolish. When he relies on his intuition with human behaviour and motivations he can convince people to do just about anything. His self-restraint, in the face of provocation when negotiating the truce between Tokugawa and Hashiba, impresses the former to the point of declaring that Furuta Sasuke may be someone special. Yet, Furuta's obsession with the tea ceremony, it's implements and the notion that true aestheticism must demonstrate the transience of life through imperfection, reaches the level of sheer idiocy. 
Oribe. With new fansubbers it's good to see the series striding forward once more. Through all of this Hyouge Mono continues its enthralling dialogues between the main characters, with all their undercurrents of threat, treachery, double-meanings and incitements. All the while the writers and director subtly allow the viewer to see how pointless, how ridiculous and how dangerous it all is. The series oozes irony, like no other anime I've ever seen. This isn't a show for adolescents (or adults who are adolescent at heart) who want their hormones excited. This is a witty and pitiless examination of the barely disguised brutality of the men competing for power in one of the most violent times in Japan's past. History tends to glorify the exploits of these men. Hyouge Mono gives them the merciless lampooning they arguably deserve even more. The artwork is Mashimo handsome although some of the CG created objects sit uncomfortably in their settings. Compared witht the rest of the artwork, the tea ceremony implements are rendered almost photographically. This may be a deliberate ploy to accentuate the unreality of the importance attached to these objects. If so, it's a creative idea that doesn't really work aesthetically (yuk! yuk!). The music from Kou Otani is used sparingly but usually to good effect. War is ever on the horizon. Hashiba's unpleasantly conservative lieutenant Ishida Mitsunari manages to effortlessly threaten everyone while Tokugawa Ieyasu is yet to make his move. Already in the following three episodes the short peace of the Kitano Tea Ceremony is giving way to new military campaigns. Rating: I'll save my rating until I've finished. These episodes don't match the best of the first fourteen but they continue to be unlike anything else you might see in anime. Blade of the Immortal Reason for watching: It's directed by Koichi Mashimo. I had previously watched it on the ABC's iview service but the resolution was so low (it's intended for iphones) and the American dub so annoying that I ordered it from Madman so I could watch it and listen to it properly. Synopsis: Sixteen year old Rin Asano wants to avenge the death of her parents who were killed at the behest of the disgruntled Anotsu from the Itto-ryu fighting school. Manji is a jaded samurai with a taste for violence who, thanks to the scheming of a priestess, cannot die. The same priestess conspires to bring the two together in the hope that each may bring about the salvation of the other. Without fully comprehending why, the unlikely pair travel together, despatching the Itto-ryu warriors one by one. The killings encourage rivals of the Itto-ryu to confront each other in a final orgy of violence... but you won't see it because the series ends before that happens. One of the best things about this particular DVD package is the series of interviews conducted by the original mangaka, Hiroaki Samura, with various members of the anime production team. They are rambling and occasionally illuminating. Well, they're not so much interviews as drunken chats. Although he had earlier given the anime his imprimatur, at the very end of the last interview, Samura says:
Of course, long running manga provide challenges for the makers of limited run TV series. Should they try to manufacture an ending a la Claymore? Should they re-write much of the story so it makes sense a la Full Metal Alchemist? Should they pick out a segment of the tale and thereby neglect the context a la Berserk? Blade of the Immortal follows the infuriating but, arguably, more honest route of simply stopping midway through the story. If you want to find out what happens, there is always the option of reading the manga. Having said that, there is a story contained within the 13 episodes that has a beginning and an end: Rin's journey from irresolute, powerless and naive victim praying for justice over her father's grave, to a self-aware, determined avenger (which isn't exactly what the priestess Yaobikuni had in mind). Like Claymore, re-watching the series and knowing the ending gives a better insight into what the creators are trying to achieve. That said, it still doesn't work nearly as well as Claymore. Nevertheless, there is still much to enjoy about Blade of the Immortal. 
Manji and Rin: motivated by things they don't fully understand. Like the best Kouichi Mashimo anime, it's the interactions between the major characters (in this case, between Rin and Manji) that provide the greatest rewards for the viewer, not the short bursts of violent action, not the impressive artwork and not the appropriately intense soundtrack from Kou Otani. Putting two mismatched characters together is a common technique in any dramatic art form, but something more is happening here. The two are drawn to each other for reasons they can't comprehend. I'm not talking romantic attraction - I don't know how it develops thereafter in the manga but, for all their sexiness (Rin, in particular, is frequently presented in a highly sexualised way), the relationship between the two is entirely platonic. That's not to say each isn't fascinated by the other. Rin sums it up when she asks:
She wonders about the possibities that would be afforded to her if she were immortal; he wonders where she gets her motivation from. Thanks to the other each finds a direction in their life. From what I have read this is a theme of the original manga - the characters make decisions and follow paths without knowing why but find a purpose in doing so. One of the successes of the anime is that it convincingly portrays such seemingly nebulous character devlopment. It doesn't hurt that the two characters are intrinsicly intereresting. Manji is, when it comes down to it, a psychopath who, thanks to his immortality, has tired of his life of killing. He is also haunted by the knowledge that he drove his beloved sister into insanity by killing her husband. There is a self-effacing irony about him that makes him appealing despite his appalling predilictions. That irony keeps in check Rin's more childish, more foolish notions. Rin herself is a Candide-like figure who seems constantly surprised by the venality all around her. Even her murderous desire for revenge somehow comes across as childishly innocent. Mashimo's major female characters often fascinate me. Rin is no exception. I also get the impression that Mashimo loves those characters, no matter how sexist their portrayal may be. He allows them space to be the agents of their situations, not just attachments to the male leads. In Blade of the Immortal the female characters are strong and lovingly rendered. While Rin does have her weaknesses, other female characters like Makie and Hyakurin are awesomely powerful. 
Makie Otono-Tachibana (left) and Rin Asano: Mashimo's women are among my favourites. The series is uneven. The first two episodes don't set up the story clearly enough first time around, while the next six episodes veer too closely towards shounen silliness for my taste (though I can detect Mashimo's trademark po-faced pisstaking of the standard in-fight exposition from some of the villains). From the moment Makie Otono-Tachibana appears in episode 9 the series takes off. For 4½ episodes there is a terrific discourse on revenge and mercy, immortality and death, presented in a series of compelling vignettes. The undoubted charisma of the big bad, Kagehisa Anotsu, makes it easy to see why thugs and samurai alike are so prepared to follow him. His goals may be absurdly ambitious and highly unlikely but he prosecutes his case convincingly without ever resorting to smirking, let alone insane laughter. I found him a refreshing villain - sullen, unpleasant but compelling. 
The villain - Kagehisa Anotsu - happily doesn't detract from the story. Like the more recent Hyouge Mono (and Mashimo's work in general) the artwork can be breathtaking at times (TV Tropes rates him second only to Makoto Shinkai for scenery porn) while any expensive animation is kept to a minimum by having the, usually violent, action scenes short and sharp. The blood and gore can be graphic but, being animated, is never off-putting. Unlike his restraint in Hyouge Mono, Kou Otani's soundtrack is intrusive and, at times, jarring with its jazzy disonances. I think it's entirely appropriate. Two of the pieces - the otherworldly piano piece Hada E and the yearning Rengoku - are among the best things ever from him. The OP has the biggest "what the f*** did I just see?" moment I've had in anime since the bullet defying breasts in High School of the Dead - probably NSFW. Have you ever been licked by a cat? It's tongue is like sand paper. Gak! I hated the American dub. As soon as Mela Lee's voice came out of my speakers all I could hear was Rin's namesake from Fate / Stay Night. Even though the two Rins would be of similar age, where Mela Lee had Rin Tohsaka down pat, somehow her voicing of Rin Asano comes across as too young. Maybe it's the more adult sensibility of Blade of the Immortal? (Curiously, three of my favourite female anime characters share their name - the other being Rin Kaga, my avatar). Keith Silverstein plays Manji as a cool hero with a faintly ridiculous edge, something along the lines of Spike from Cowboy Bebop. I think that is misguided. Manji isn't cool: he's a loser, a psychopath, and at his wit's end on what to do with his unending life. Silverstein just doesn't catch that desperation. His American drawl in a Japanese period piece jars with my Australian ear, something that wouldn't be a problem, of course, for the intended American audience; it's just my bad luck to be outside the mainstream. Rating: decent. The interactions between the central duo are a highlight and, while a few episodes towards the end tilt towards greatness, an uncertain start, some altogether too-shounen villains and an abrupt ending reduce Blade of the Immortal to mediocrity. Last edited by Errinundra on Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:45 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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ailblentyn
Posts: 1688 Location: body in Ohio, heart in Sydney |
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Four episodes into Hyakko I find myself asking, "Is life too short to continue with this?" Very possibly yes.
I've read a review on T.H.E.M. that was pretty spot-on, in pointing out that while the show is slightly likeable everything in it is a cliché, and each one has been better realized elsewhere. |
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Nocturne123
 Posts: 268 |
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I just finished up the first episode of Attack on Titan. Pretty compelling. It kept me interested the entire episode and sort of just gives off a raw appeal.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Finished Hyouge Mono, rated it as Masterpiece.
"It wasn't what I was expected. It didn't provide closure in the way I expected. It didn't do what I expected it to do, or go where I expected it to go. It didn't even answer its own fundamental question, something which it had mulled over for almost the entire thirty-nine-episode run. It has its flaws. It seems to lack the touch of greatness, and I never got chills down my spine from watching it. And yet . . . I say this without hyperbole; it is amongst the best Anime I have ever watched. It is hard to voice why. When examined individually, most components are merely adequate, some even less so. It is impossible to find specific scenes which showcase its greatness. Each gesture, line of dialogue and sideways glance conveys weight only in relation to others. This is gestalt in action, humble imperfection quietly usurping dazzling spectacle. Should you watch it? A poor question." |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23771 |
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A poor question? Hardly. Hyouge Mono may in fact be a very fine show, but you are being a pisspoor publicist for it. Basically, your long-winded, pretentious post boils down to: "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts." As I say, that may very well be true, but it's hardly an enormous inducement to being a 39-episode voyage, especially when you state that the individual components are "merely adequate" and some even less so.
Hey, who's up for investing 15 hours of your life to watch merely adequate components just so at the end you can have the wonderful, "wow, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" experience. Sign me up! |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6525 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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I have to agree with DTM42. The last episode has finally been fansubbed (one week short of two years since the first episode was fansubbed) and I think Hyouge Mono is about the most extraordinary anime I've ever seen. By that I mean it is outside and beyond any other anime.
DTM42's avatar doesn't fully convey the horror (and liberation) of Furuta's situation because you can't see what he's holding under his arm. What Furuta is forced to do is shocking but the inevitable outcome of the events leading up to that moment. Yet the very final image of the series is a beautiful open enso, and to quote Wikipedia, "the opening may express various ideas, for example that the ensō is not separate, but is part of something greater, or that imperfection is an essential and inherent aspect of existence". 
I would differ with DTM42 in that I would recommend that most anime fans avoid it. Hyouge Mono is so removed from your average anime that I fear many would simply be bemused by it. Perhaps I've just been overwhelmed by the shattering last episode, so I'll leave any further comments until I do a full write-up this weekend, other than to say it is Koichi Mashimo's crowning masterpiece. Last edited by Errinundra on Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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danilo07
 Posts: 1580 |
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Can somebody tell me what is the appeal of Hyouge Mono(ideas,setting or characters perhaps) and I have hard believing Koichi Mashimo can direct a masterpiece.It takes an extraordinary talent to take Blade of the Immortal and make it so bad.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23771 |
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@ errinundra - based on your past reviews, I'm willing to bet you will be able to make a much better pitch for the show. Saying that it is one of the best anime evar but not really being able to articulate why is not terribly helpful.
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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It is rather unfortunate that my mind read your post as saying: "and I have a hard believingKoichi Mashimo can direct a masterpiece." I need to stop reading posts so late after expending my focus on other things (video games). |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23771 |
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 Get your mind outta the gutter, bro!
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danilo07
Posts: 1580 |
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"You read it correctly"then he just dropped the mic. |
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Ignatz
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How come Hyouge Mono is so unpopular?
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getchman
Space Cowboy Posts: 9120 Location: Bedford, NH |
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I'm currently slowly finishing FMA: Brotherhood. got up to ep 39 on Netflix around a year ago and stopped since there weren't anymore episodes. then I just forget about the show for a while, and a few days ago, I remembered that I have not finished it. So, I'm taking advantage of my Elite subscription and working my way through the rest of the show. I'm starting ep 47
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